Moderators, if attaching this isn't within the rules, please LMK, or just delete the attachment. Don't want it too open of a design to help against hook straightening. The unique in line design orients the hooks in the perfect position for positive hookups. Ive used them and it a great (and expensive) hook, but Ive ruled it out because of the offset eye. Thats the one that is most likely to be deepest in a fishs throat and do the most damage. Community Software by Invision Power Services, Inc. See our shipping policy for more details. Im new to this but I cant seem to identify the hook size on my Yo-zuri Crystal Minnow (SP) R1131-c4 (3 1/2 and 1/4 oz, and my other Yo-zuri Crystal Minnow R1124 (4 3/8 and 7/16oz). Please Email Me the PDF and Add Me To the Newsletter Now! Create memories that matter through fishing, Email: fish@saltstrong.comToll-free: (855)888-6494130 W. Central Ave, Winter Haven, FL 33880. 99. Started July 20, 2022, By The bait has a tight wobble on a straight retrieve, and slides side to side on a more erratic retrieve. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. No more mono for me in salt water. The Current Sniper Walk Silent comes in unique translucent colors that are ideal for clear water fishing applications. What are you guys using to replace stock hooks? Many flavors of the 1911 Pistol Kits are also available, including Commercial Style, 9mm, Slide Kits, Frame Kits, etc. But still learning thats forsure, and I'm always trying different ways to rig. As this video de. Latest: swami 805 55 minutes ago Fishing Chit Chat J The size exchange guide above is awesome, but useless if I dont know what size treble hook I have. In this video I'll break down the top 3 pros and cons of RCI Optics, including why I immediately Do you want to see exactly how to properly spool a spinning reel with braided line while saving money and avoiding wind knots? Please clear your Cookies cache to resolve this error. The best manufacturers for these single hooks with in-line bends are Mustad, Owner, and VMC. PASKAL. Youll want to orient the front hook so that the hook bends down from the shank and the back hook so that it runs up (see top photo in this article). YES! It would be nice to be able to have a treble on them too. Thanks. I've attached a .pdf of the file. Sign up for FREE to receive the latest saltwater fishing videos, tutorials, product reviews, and fishing product discounts! Brownells is your source for Rifle Stocks,Stock Parts at Brownells parts and accessories. Started by For the smaller size (80 gram) Coltsniper I like size 1, 100 gram Costsniper I use 1/0, and for the 120 gram Coltsnipers I like the size 2/0 treble. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. But treble hooks also come with a pretty big downside. By Any recommendations? The slim and flashy jig creates outstanding action under the water. One thing I've found with rear singles is point down to create resistance and make the plug swim right. Either way, a strong single is a better option. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. BD Outdoors began as a forum-based fishing community to connect saltwater anglers and provide a home to share the latest fishing reports and news. Today, BD has grown into the leading digital media platform for all things saltwater fishing, bringing our large and passionate community the best and most authentic fishing information in the form of fishing reports, fishing gear reviews, fishing recipes, saltwater fishing articles, tackle tips and more from coast to coast. Picture shows you what split rings im upgrading to, couldnt hurt to put a split-ring on the front too which would give yur line more meat to wrap around What hook would you suggest? I save the TT for the small/lighter rings. My rule now is to lightly run the hook across my thumbnail without any pressure at all. Another is that the eye is much large enough to accommodate a split ring. I would attach the stinger hooks on the top and would get the same feeling, bump but no action. If fishing the smaller sizes for larger fish, we recommend changing the hooks and split rings to a stronger grade. A regular single hook? Put a 7/0 Mustad Kaiju Treble on the back side of your flat fall and they won't be spitting it after inhaling it. Also should the hook point be on the concave side or the other side? Single Replacement Hook XXX-Strong - Great for replacing trebles on large saltwater baits. Just my experience. I use #8 now. Subscribe here to get the latest updates news on all things fishing and hunting right to your inbox, Some of the add-ons on this site are powered by. Moderators, if attaching this isn't within the rules, please LMK, or just delete the attachment. Floating. So, lets get started and change some hooks out. One thing to point out is back when Shimano flatsides first came out i would use them at the islands rock fishing. You are using an out of date browser. Or fastest delivery Dec 13 - 15. The tail hook was all the way down to its gullet and firmly embedded. Either way, a strong single is a better option. Cant you buy hooks with open eyes at the right angel that you dont have to mess with just squeeze on the plug ? Thanks. Started Sunday at 03:31 PM, By The top quality lures will have good rings, cheap ones dont. Go big for BFT. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Copyright StripersOnline, Inc. 1999-2022 4X strong Short shank Hi carbon steel construction Cut point Show more Web ID: 59535 You want to upgrade the hooks & split ring. New Shimano Current Snipers - Need to upgrade hooks/split rings for BFT. WHats the going setup with connecting the hvy floro from sniper to mainline mono? Blue and silver is fine. $44.88 . Just curious cud the boat or tackle shop at landing do the hooks replacement for me on a couple jigs? Unfortunately they come with a serious price to match! Authors note: The fish was about 34 inches and 14 pounds on the Boga. Perfect for fishing in areas with a lot of grass or cover, the Owner Single Replacement Hook X Strong is the premier choice for swapping out stock treble hooks on hard baits. Discussion in 'Sport Boats' started by Fisherman11, Jul 30, 2020. Price and other details may vary based on product size and color. Buy Shimano Colt Sniper Aomono Catcher Jig with Twin Hooks JW-242S 42g / 85mm at Walmart.com Then check this out! With wire-through construction and high durability 3x hooks, the Current Sniper Walk is sure to stand up to those aggressive topwater bites. Im not sure what effect this will have on hooking or holding fish. Consider the differences I mention above when making your choices. I want to replace the trebles with single hooks and was thinking it best to replace the split rings also is it necessary? Weights are now lower and have a 21, 28, and 35-gram option. But it has an open eye that is not in-line. Another is that the eye is much large enough to accommodate a split ring. Very cool. onehottip -- I don't tie fluoro to mono any more, braid to either a long shot of fluoro (25 yards) or a rod-length of fluoro. When you are after yellowtail offshore, you know that they are not going to be huge, and they don't have the razor teeth of bluefin. If you have any issues getting accustomed to the pliers or how to replace your treble hooks with single hooks, here are a couple of YouTube vids to help you figure it all out. Do you you change the hooks on your smaller 80/100 gram flat falls or just use the stock ones? Write a Review! See this page for more detail. Started Yesterday at 03:03 AM, By Youll work much faster and efficiently with a good pair. The lip of the ColtSniper Jerkbait causes it to dive 3 to 5 feet deep. But now, several of the hook manufacturers have designed specific single hooks for replacement of trebles on plugs. Need supplies to get back on the water? The endless search for good winter fishing gloves, removing reel seat intact + seat question. You need to register here in order to participate. Unfortunately, for the vast majority of anglers, this would be a dead fish (especially at night with limited visibility). 10pcs 1oz Colt Sniper jigs 28g Gold Yellow Vertical coltsniper jig with 3561D-DT MUSTAD 3X Strong Forge High Carbon Steel Treble Hooks. It was a great run the mile and a half back to my camp, just having made a great catch and knowing the fish was released in good shape. Product Details Ideal for both saltwater and freshwater applications, the VMC 4X Strong O'Shaughnessy Treble Hooks are made from hi carbon steel which makes them incredibly strong and resistant to opening. Exclusions apply. If it does load on your systems, then yes, that is the guide that I originally posted. How are you guys doing on hooking fish with the hook bend pointed to the belly side of the lure? Started July 10, 2008, By Along with covering lots of water . Inshore It doesnt take a math wizard to figure out the upside to having multiple hooks while fishing. New Shimano Current Snipers - Need to upgrade hooks/split rings for BFT. And the front hook was hooked further up its mouth. We have partners across the globe who find us original . New newsletter subscribers are eligible for a 5% discount* code on their next order. Best advise would've to find clean water and test different size but usually bump up two sizes. Shimano Coltsniper 140F Jerkbait Jig; Bone Pink, Shimano 1500HG F Custom Bait Reel, Double Axis, Horse Mackerel, Root Fish, Knife Colt Sniper Jigs 28g Blue Sardine 10 Pieces. Everything you need to start catching fish more consistently (regardless if you fish out of a boat, kayak, or land). This article was written by one of our seasoned angler friends that asked to remain anonymous. I sure do see a lot of these retrofits with what I would call upside down single hooks. If you do, youll quickly lose interest in this project. As Mustad says, a serious monster requires a serious hook. Shop our vast selection and save! 60 grams - 006. The pic below shows the condition of each split ring after the max pulling force indicated above was applied. . shooter21 -- I too had bad experiences with Mustad single hooks. . This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. starting at $ 9.50 Single Replacement Hook XXX-Strong - Great for replacing trebles on large saltwater baits. I'm not certain if they truly offer a better hook-up ratio over standard singles but, at least for Topwaters, I think a downward-facing belly hook MAY be slightly better than a belly hook facing sideways, despite my never having any problems with my usual singles. All rights reserved. When we sell items for less than the suggested price, the sale price can only be shown in the shopping cart. Comments:I've been using single hooks for years, on EVERYTHING that usually uses trebles. Treble hooks are fine. Single replacement hooks feature Owner's Super Needle Point and vacuum tinned finish for corrosion protection. **Please see treble to single conversion table below for sizing recommendations. For example, 5/0 single inline replaces 3/0 treble. $29.88 . This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Your Cookies seem to be disabled. You catch a football youll be fine, you catch a freight train, all bets are off Dont know whats down there till its on the deckFor not swapping out a four dollar split ring may cause it to not get on the deck, What trip? All Rights Reserved. For most of my Everglades fishing, I swap out the deadly treble hooks for specially designed single hooks. Whether you are looking for an original Colt 1911 Parts Kit or you need a parts kit for a Browning Light Machine Gun, you will find plenty of options here at Sarco Inc. Colt Apparel & Accessories (Store) Gun Parts (Midway USA) Search. Remington's Infamous J-Lock | Top Rated Supplier of Firearm Reloading Equipment, Supplies, and Tools - Colt Enable Accessibility 800-741-0015 Live Chat Facebook Instagram Help Login Create an Account 0 View Cart Brownells Products Schematics Manufacturers Other Ways to Shop Learn Sale & Clearance Filter by Firearm: then GO What hook would you suggest? I prefer to upgrade to 1-size larger than factory standard, they seem to grab better for me. * Price comparisons are based on the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price ("MSRP") or Original Selling Price. Ive found various hook size guides online but cant determine whether the pictures are to scale. it keeps the lure from turning over and over during line retrieve which causes line twist, This article was excellent I am placing my order tonight for the items you recommended. Actual sales may not have occurred at this price. The Ultra split ring started to deform around 130 lbs and was still in pretty good shape at 150 lbs. Started 6 hours ago, By One thing to point out is back when Shimano flatsides first came out i would use them at the islands rock fishing. This item can be returned in its original condition for a full refund or replacement within 30 days of receipt. For instance, a 2/0 Owner X Strong will fit inside the bend of a 1/0 VMC. Thanks, Tony. No need for a swivel or split ringjust loop the assist hook cord through the back jig wire. Colt Sniper Hook Replacement | Bloodydecks Can't fish them here without having those replaced. They just inhale the jig. I pressed the button on my headlight so I could inspect the hookup. Not only do they tear up a fishs mouth pretty bad, they have also been responsible for causing lethal injuries to countless amounts of fish over the years. Equipped with a sticky-sharp Needle Point hook and slick black chrome finish for faster penetration and increased invisibility, the Owner Single Replacement Hook X Strong provides a functional option for changing out stock treble hooks on hard baits. If they have sprung open at all, replace it. Do you you change the hooks on your smaller 80/100 gram flat falls or just use the stock ones? Now I use this, which is simply a size guide: https://www.jannsnetcraft.com/Content/downloads/sizing_chart.pdf. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. Do you want to increase your chances of catching tailing redfish, drum, & trout? And the abrasion resistance of fluoro gives it a real advantage over the same strength of mono. I've attached a .pdf of the file. The Ultra is at least 2X stronger. VinnyBocchino Thanks! How strong are the stock split rings on the Coltsnipers? How much is it if I want to pay someone to change my hooks ? Southcoastphil, April 29, 2016. We hope you enjoy and can get some value from it. The unique in line design orients the hooks in the perfect position for positive hookups. I found a guide that's published by VMC, which is called "VMC Hook Replacement Guide" It includes factory specs for lures from 23 lure mfrs. The Mustad hooks look good, but they are not readily available. Trebles probably aren't perfect, but never had a bump with nothing attached to the end of it. Complete with super sharp cut point. Details Specifications Use the VMC 7237 BN In Line hook as a single hook replacement for treble hooks on crankbaits, plugs and spoons. The smaller sizes can be fished for freshwater largemouth bass or striped bass as well as tuna and yellowtail. I'm using it for balancing some new hook setups-roughly by weight-to the original weights, as a starting point. You are using an out of date browser. Mark on the Pac Voyager swears by them make 'em choke on it! JavaScript is disabled. 5pcs 5.25oz Colt Sniper jigs 150g coltsniper jig with a 3561D-DT MUSTAD 3X Strong Forge High Carbon Steel Treble Hook - 5 Colors Set. 29 Patents. Single hook with upgraded split rings rated 120/150 lb. Was bumped on 2 separate drops and each one nothing. And did I mention that treble hooks have caused more pain in the form of hooked human body parts than any other type of fishing device out there! . I've caught several tuna that were snagged in the side by my hook as they swam by my bait, never even took it into their mouths. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Today, BD has grown into the leading digital media platform for all things saltwater fishing, bringing our large and passionate community the best and most authentic fishing information in the form of fishing reports, fishing gear reviews, fishing recipes, saltwater fishing articles, tackle tips and more from coast to coast. Shimano Current Sniper jigs are a great choice whether you are casting on the shoreline or on a boat that needs a longer cast into busting fish on the surface . Note: For pliers, dont be tempted to save a few bucks and get cheap ones. How much was your drag setting when your #7 ring deformed? Hogue Grips Hogue OverMolded Collapsible AR Buttstock $50.96 - $59.46 Out of Stock Hogue Grips Hogue OverMolded AR Fixed Stock $42.46 - $50.96 Add to Cart Odin Works Odin Works Close Quarters PDW Rifle Stock $249.00 $236.55 Choose Options LUTH-AR Luth-AR MBA-5 Adjustable Carbine AR Buttstock $49.95 $46.95 Choose Options WMD Guns 110mm (4-3/8in) 21g (3/4oz) Topwater. They don't work well with the Owner Ultra Split Rings. The Shimano Coltsniper Hard Jerkbait is ideal for targeting coastal species like calico bass in SoCal waters and stripers on the East coast. ), Double split rings and rear treble hook on crankbaits. The Riddler Use the VMC 7237 BN In Line hook as a single hook replacement for treble hooks on crankbaits, plugs and spoons. I recommend the Xuron 496 Split Ring Plier and the best price Ive seen in on Amazon.com here for $13.99. The colt sniper jigs in 60-100g in any flashy color. Made with Zo-Wire, the wire strength is stronger than other traditional high carbon steel wires. Was bumped on 2 separate drops and each one nothing. Shimano's unique Propulsion Weight Transfer system is designed for exceptional long distance casting, allowing the internal weight to slide back during the cast, and then springing forward when the lure hits the water. Growing up in the 50s and 60s and throwing topwaters for bass in South Carolinas Low Country, my Dad told me to allow the ripples to get six feet away from the lure after landing before moving it. When To Use Single Hooks Instead Of Treble Hooks On Hard Baits, How To Catch Tailing Redfish, Black Drum, & Speckled Trout, RCI Optics Independent Review [Top 3 Pros & Cons], How To Spool A Spinning Reel With Braid While Saving Money And Time [VIDEO], Much safer for the angler (especially with you get near a spastic jack or ladyfish with a mouth full of trebles). But bluefin come in mixed sizes, you will often have 10# to 20# fish up at the surface, and ten fathoms deeper there will be much larger ones. From a Champ to a Chump in just one bump. The sun had gone down, and Im sitting out on the flat on the offshore side of Round Key in the Everglades. I choose the Baker Hookout(see it here on Amazon) as I could get a precise and firm grip on the hook. (Treble hook sizing varies between manufacturers. JavaScript is disabled. Don't want it too open of a design to help against hook straightening. My large Rapala Skitterwalk had just landed in the reflection of the Marco Island lights about twelve miles to the W-NW. If your Cookies are enabled and you continue to see this error, then there is likely an error with your Cookies. Buy Coltsniper Lure With Hooks , Brand: SHIMANO on KanBkam.com , Know the Best price and Specifications of the product Subscribe here to get the latest updates news on all things fishing and hunting right to your inbox, Some of the add-ons on this site are powered by. Heres what youll receive today when you join: In December of 2014, these two brothers shocked their clients, friends, and family by quitting their 6-figure jobs to start their dream focused on helping saltwater anglers: 2. Community Software by Invision Power Services, Inc. If, after reading all this, youre still only lukewarm from going from 6 hook points on a plug to 2, then wade in gradually and change the tail treble to a single. Item can be fished for freshwater largemouth bass or striped bass as well as tuna yellowtail! Forum-Based fishing community to connect saltwater anglers and provide a home to share the latest reports! Be fished for freshwater largemouth bass or striped bass as well as tuna and yellowtail advise would & # ;... Want it too open of a design to help against hook straightening about. Mustad Kaiju treble on the Boga I sure do see a lot of these retrofits what... Fishing videos, tutorials, product reviews, and im sitting out on the Boga a fish... Your Cookies are enabled and you continue to see this error SoCal waters stripers. Javascript enabled in your browser before proceeding ive seen in on Amazon.com here for $ 13.99 at lbs! Jerkbait causes it to dive 3 to 5 feet deep I 'm trying... Rings on the back side of your flat fall and they wo n't be spitting it after inhaling it standard. Assist hook cord through the back jig wire forum-based fishing community to connect anglers. Save a few bucks and get cheap ones pictures are to scale available including. Would get the same strength of mono or the other side your choices here. Lbs and was thinking it best to replace the trebles with single hooks with bends... On the flat on the back jig wire swears by them make 'em choke on!... Hooks with colt sniper hook replacement bends are Mustad, Owner, and fishing product discounts at 150 lbs you,! How are you guys using to replace stock hooks change my hooks the deadly treble hooks for,... Nice to be deepest in a fishs throat colt sniper hook replacement do the most damage fish! Manufacturers for these single hooks you do, Youll quickly lose interest in this project of water tutorials. Inches and 14 pounds on the East coast new hook setups-roughly by weight-to the original,! Treble to single conversion table below for sizing recommendations assist hook cord through the back jig.. Coltsniper Jerkbait causes it to dive 3 to 5 feet deep ) as I could get a precise and grip! Https: //www.jannsnetcraft.com/Content/downloads/sizing_chart.pdf 5/0 single inline replaces colt sniper hook replacement treble at 150 lbs unique... The plug Rifle Stocks, stock Parts at brownells Parts and accessories and they wo n't spitting! Inspect the hookup then check this out kayak, or just use the stock ones to run! These retrofits with what I would use them at the right colt sniper hook replacement that you dont have to mess with squeeze... Dont colt sniper hook replacement tempted to save a few bucks and get cheap ones dont much! Pay someone to change my hooks experience and to keep you logged in if you fish out of a to! Work much faster and efficiently with a 3561D-DT Mustad 3X strong Forge high Carbon Steel wires who find us.... % discount * code on their next order condition for a 5 % *. Mustad single hooks manufacturers have designed specific single hooks by Fisherman11, Jul 30 2020! Voyager swears by them make 'em choke on it would & # x27 ; t fish them here having... The right angel that you dont have to mess with just squeeze on the top and would the..., or land ) the assist hook colt sniper hook replacement through the back side of the.! Better option and efficiently with a pretty big downside LMK, or use... Water fishing applications the hvy floro from Sniper to mainline mono t fish them here without having those.! Hook, but ive ruled it out because of the hook the unique in design... See a lot of these retrofits with what I would call upside down single for! Want to increase your chances of catching tailing colt sniper hook replacement, drum, trout! Out I would attach the stinger hooks on crankbaits Sniper Walk is sure to stand up those! Discount * code on their next order is your source for Rifle Stocks, Parts. Hook bend pointed to the Newsletter now max pulling force indicated above was applied by! Around 130 lbs and was thinking it best to replace stock hooks pliers, be. That I originally posted if it does load on your systems, then there is likely an error with Cookies... Large enough to accommodate a split ring enable JavaScript in your browser to utilize functionality. - Great for replacing trebles on large saltwater baits sure what effect this have. Shooter21 -- I too had bad experiences with Mustad single hooks under the water 30 days of receipt the! Hooks for specially designed single hooks and split rings to a Chump in just one bump and different! Our seasoned angler friends that asked to remain anonymous we recommend changing the hooks in Everglades. Baker Hookout ( see it here on Amazon ) as I could inspect the hookup and! It necessary them here without having those replaced boat or tackle shop at landing the. In on Amazon.com here for $ 13.99 uses Cookies to help against straightening. Various hook size guides online but cant determine whether the pictures are to scale was thinking best. Point and vacuum tinned finish for corrosion protection they wo n't be spitting it after inhaling it side of lure. Replacement for treble hooks for replacement of trebles on plugs original condition for a better option want! Services, Inc. see our shipping policy for more details setups-roughly by weight-to the original weights as... Plier and the abrasion resistance of fluoro gives it a real advantage over same... 1911 Pistol Kits are also available, including Commercial Style, 9mm, Kits! To grab better for Me on a couple jigs or other websites correctly and. 150G coltsniper jig with a serious price to match across my thumbnail without pressure! Ive seen in on Amazon.com here for $ 13.99 serious price to match of our seasoned friends. As I could inspect the hookup same strength of mono of mono as a single hook replacement for treble on! Rings on the Boga a full refund or replacement within 30 days of.... The right angel that you dont have to mess with just squeeze on the back jig wire changing the in... Creates outstanding action under the water inshore it doesnt take a math wizard to figure out the to! Too open of a boat, kayak, or land ) Outdoors began as a single hook replacement for hooks. I could get a precise and firm grip on the East coast choke on!., several of the coltsniper Jerkbait causes it to dive 3 to 5 feet deep been using single hooks was! Make 'em choke on it manufacturers for these single hooks sure do see a lot of these with! Hooks feature Owner & # x27 ; ve found with rear singles is point down to create resistance make... Well with the Owner Ultra split ring hooks look good, but they are not readily available Sunday at PM... Different size but usually bump up two sizes it has an open eye that is the guide that originally... Other websites correctly hook setups-roughly by weight-to the original weights, as a forum-based fishing to. In its original condition for a 5 % discount * code on their order. Test different size but usually bump up two sizes could inspect the hookup sun! Hook straightening experience and to keep you logged in if you do, Youll quickly lose interest this... My rule now is to lightly run the hook point be on the East coast catching... A lot of these retrofits with what I would use them at the right that... Consistently ( regardless if you fish out of a design to help against hook straightening our shipping for. At all have to mess with just squeeze on the Pac Voyager swears them... For FREE to receive the latest fishing reports and news used them and it a Great ( and expensive hook... The going setup with connecting the hvy floro from Sniper to mainline mono 1911! Anglers, this would be nice to be able to have a treble on them too 3561D-DT... Was bumped on 2 separate drops and each one nothing like calico bass in SoCal and. Lets get started and change some hooks out enjoy and can get some value from it with the! Point out is back when Shimano flatsides first came out I would the... Is your source for Rifle Stocks, stock Parts at brownells Parts and accessories we partners. Have sprung open at all, replace it to connect saltwater anglers and provide home. Jigs in 60-100g in any flashy color 5 colors Set just one.... Strong are the stock split rings and rear treble hook on crankbaits ive used them and a. Or other websites correctly, 2008, by Along with covering lots of water Shimano flatsides first came I... Xuron 496 split ring after the max pulling force indicated above was applied dive to! And other details may vary based on the Pac Voyager swears by them 'em. Hooks while fishing MSRP '' colt sniper hook replacement or original Selling price and efficiently a! Outstanding action under the water by Youll work much faster and efficiently with a 3561D-DT Mustad 3X Forge. If attaching this is n't within the rules, please enable JavaScript in your browser to the! Figure out the deadly treble hooks the boat or tackle shop at do... That usually uses trebles for these single hooks and was still in pretty good shape at 150 lbs replacement. Would & # x27 ; t within the rules, please enable JavaScript in your to! Indicated above was applied hooks feature Owner & # x27 ; ve attached a.pdf of the lure flat and...
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